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www.shamansociety.org 39 getting very vociferous is that we end up feeding that separation. So we need continually to ask our spirits how to enter into these crucial conflicts in ways that reduce separation and in ways that bring about the sense of interconnec- tion. That is the very foundation for shift- ing our relationship with one another and with the Earth. This shift in consciousness is crucial or we can get all caught up in how evil Monsanto is. Actually we could say that Monsanto is the ultimate expression of the human illusion of separationthink- ing that we can somehow manipulate genes that we can take land and seeds from other people and destroy their lives and not be affected ourselves. Weve cre- ated thathumanity has created that il- lusion of separation. Monsanto actually is a manifestation of a fundamental misun- derstanding on the part of humanity. Jonathan Youre onto something. Separation is our guiding illusion and propagates fear and greed which are like the Mordor driving forces of the human world today. So when going into an ac- tivist setting entering in with an angry Us vs. Them attitude is a dangerous thing. I think the best way to get to a more bal- anced state is to try to see things as the spirits do. And often the spirits have an agenda. But if they have an agenda Im willing to work for itI trust their agen- da more than I trust mine Lenore Yes Jonathan Tell me more about the inter- faith activism. Lenore That really started when I at- tended the west coast founding confer- ence of the Network of Spiritual Progres- sives NSP initiated by Rabbi Michael Lerner in 2005. The conference was overwhelmingly Christian and Jewish and white so I helped start a Diversity caucus at the conference to promote racial and all kinds of diversity including spiritual. After I campaigned for months to get an interfaith healing ritual on the agenda of the east coast NSP founding conference in Washington D.C. It was a tremendous amount of work to get the ritual accepted but many joined me in calling for it and when it was won I invited Myron Es- howsky to collaborate with me. We car- ried it out across from the White House in Lafayette Park. When we told the Christian Jewish Mus- lim Buddhist and spiritual-not-religious participants that our intention was to heal the history of violence in the name of re- ligion they got it immediatelytheir re- sponse was Oh yeah we really need to do that. Jonathan Wow. Thats really brave of you. What happened Lenore Some of the participants said it was the most powerful spiritual experi- ence they had in the four-day conference. When I returned to Portland where I was living at the time another interfaith peace group had heard about the D.C. ritual and asked if I would do one for them. So we talked and I journeyed and we did a public peacemaking ritual for our neigh- borhood which was torn by gentrifica- tion. It turned out that the day before the ritual there was a huge escalation in the war and many people were upsetso not only people from the immediate neigh- borhood came but beyond. They said they came because they felt helpless and wanted to do something positive instead of another anti-war protest. They left feel- ing empowered and hopeful. Jonathan That reminds me of when I got back from Viet Nam in 1966 and I joined in the Anti-War movement. But a few years later I got involved in the Peace Movement. Lenore Exactly In 2008 I wrote in Sacred Hoop magazine about my vi- sion of transforming mass social pro- tests into massive public rituals of so- cial healing. I had come to feel that the practice of protest had become disem- powering in anti-war demonstrations we would be given a prescribed route to march then we would hear a bunch of speakers and performers then we were asked for donations and then we were dismissed to go home. And I thought Dis-empowered again. It had become awfully rote and instead of people con- necting with their own power and ex- pressing that together on behalf of the greater good itd become like the worst of going to churchyou know You get a moment to feel good that you did the right thingbut did it affect anything What if instead we all encircled the Pentagon and created a huge field of love around it The Pentagon is filled with people. We can affect their hearts and affect what they actually do. So in- stead of making a big Us vs. Them pro- test and feeding conflict we can create peace. I also wrote about bringing in the ancestors to help us to do this and connecting with the spirits of the land. Jonathan Do you see these public ritu- als going beyond the interfaith activist movement Lenore They mustand they have. This happened for the first time in 2009 when I was asked to put together a ritual for the national conference of the Peace and Justice Studies Association. That was a real turning point because it was the first time a secular group asked me to put together a ritual. I journeyed and asked Please show me a peacemaking ritual for a secular group that reaches them and that they will participate in. My spirits showed me that what we needed to do was a Coronation of the Collective Heart. They said People will understand that. They know the word coronation. Its about crowning a sovereign. This is about installing the collective heart as the sover- eign of the world. Jonathan Thats beautiful. And by go- ing to your spirits with this it gives a per- fect example of what I think of when I talk about shamanic activism. Lenore It was really amazing. I saw in my journey a huge garland of flow- ers for this coronation and I thought